Brand Storytelling: How Companies Can Do Well by Doing Good With Amanda Brinkman

Amanda Brinkman is the CEO of Sunshine Studios, which focuses on transformative brand storytelling. She is a seasoned producer, filmmaker, branding expert, and keynote speaker. Amanda has served in C-level roles in major corporations and has been the driving force behind the successful Hulu series Small Business Revolution, which ran for six seasons and garnered multiple Emmy nominations. A champion of women's achievements in business, Amanda has won numerous awards and is passionate about guiding others to identify their superpowers to create a positive change in the world.

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • [0:13] Amanda Brinkman’s unique journey from corporate leader to Hulu series producer
  • [1:23] How Amanda impacts communities through brand storytelling
  • [2:48] Insights on creating engaging content that benefits businesses and society
  • [7:17] The metrics that justify investing in long-form content
  • [9:13] How Small Business Revolution achieved 14x reach and engagement over traditional advertising
  • [22:12] Why purpose and action are crucial in driving brand campaigns and initiatives
  • [27:46] Tips for crafting branded content that naturally aligns with your business values
  • [35:24] How can personal stories connect with and inspire others toward their purpose?
  • [45:48] Amanda shares her perspective on balancing work and family life

In this episode…

Many are caught in the pursuit of a purpose so grand that it impedes their daily objectives. Aligning your personal purpose with your career can lead to feelings of confusion and uncertainty. How can you combine your professional ambitions with your desire to create a positive impact?

Amanda Brinkman addresses this struggle, having integrated meaningful work into the brand space and built a business around impactful storytelling. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing your core strengths and superpowers and aligning them with your career for a fulfilling and purpose-led life. Genuinely connecting with an audience requires translating your purpose into actionable brand storytelling by leading with authenticity. You can then employ metrics to track the engagement and reach of your efforts.

In this episode of the Up Arrow Podcast with William Harris, Amanda Brinkman, the CEO of Sunshine Studios, talks about translating personal purpose into professional excellence. Amanda also touches on overcoming purpose paralysis, integrating service into life, and building a career that harmonizes achievement with altruism.

Resources mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode

This episode is brought to you by Elumynt. Elumynt is a performance-driven e-commerce marketing agency focused on finding the best opportunities for you to grow and scale your business.

Our paid search, social, and programmatic services have proven to increase traffic and ROAS, allowing you to make more money efficiently.

To learn more, visit www.elumynt.com.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:03  

Welcome to the Up Arrow Podcast with William Harris, featuring top business leaders sharing strategies and resources to get to the next level. Now, let's get started with the show.

William Harris  0:13  

Hey, everyone, I'm William Harris, the founder and CEO of Elumynt, in the host of the Up Arrow Podcast where I feature the best minds in e-commerce to help you scale from 10 million to 100 million and beyond, as well as help you up arrow, your business and your personal life. Really excited about the guests that I have today. Amanda Brinkman, somebody who I've known for a while has been a friend for a while. Amanda is a producer, filmmaker, branding expert and sought after keynote speaker cheering her do well by doing good philosophy on stages around the country. She has held C level positions in Fortune 500 companies created, produced and hosted the Small Business Revolution, an amazing series that ran on Hulu for six seasons, and was nominated for multiple Emmys. She has won just about every women in business award there is and a few years ago, started her own production company and consultancy Sunshine Studios, which is focused on long form brand storytelling. Amanda is passionate about purpose and helping others identify their superpowers. So we can all feel like we're able to do good in the world. She has a new talk focused on how we can all pursue our purpose. And I am excited to hear more. Amanda, thank you very much for joining me today.

Amanda Brinkman  1:23  

Thank you what a kind introduction, my goodness, it's great to be here.

William Harris  1:27  

Well, you've earned every word of that I know that we've we've been able to interact over the years and I've I've watched some of the things that you've done. And that's why I'm really excited to dig into it like not just not just the the Hulu stuff, but what you're doing now at Sunshine, and just how this actually does help businesses, we're gonna get into metrics, we're gonna get into emotions, there's a lot of really fun stuff that I think we're gonna get into. Before we dig into that, I do want to announce our sponsor, this episode is brought to you by Elumynt. Elumynt is an award winning advertising agency, optimizing e-commerce campaigns around profit. In fact, we've helped 13 of our customers get acquired, with the largest one selling for nearly 800,000,001 That I appealed recently, you can learn more on our website@elumynt.com, which is spelled elumynt.com. That said, I gotta dig into this. So Small Business Revolution. This was on Hulu for six seasons. And this wasn't just, you know, some random show, this was a really big show that actually was helping a lot of businesses in Main Street America and all these different towns and things like that, that you are helping to build a businesses. And it was a thing that you were doing to help Deluxe a little bit with what they were doing in helping small businesses. Tell me a little bit about your experience, starting a show that actually read on Hulu. Yeah,

Amanda Brinkman  2:48  

it was a it was a total blast. It was a lot of fun. And it was really impactful. And so my team and I feel very blessed that we have the opportunity to work on it. So I joined Deluxe, the year before we were about to celebrate our 100th anniversary. So you're too young to know what a checkbook is. But Deluxe invented check in 1915. And so, as we're about to celebrate our 100th anniversary, a lot of companies use their centennial to talk about their past and their legacy. But we really needed to use it as a brand awareness opportunity to talk about our future. So we had started to diversify into tons of other things beyond check. So really impactful FinTech solutions, payment solutions, and small business marketing solutions. And so when I joined the company, I was the Chief Brand Officer, my role was how do we use our 100th anniversary to change with perceptions and raise awareness, specifically around our work with small businesses. And as a marketer, I think it's really important, we have so much data, we are so data rich, as a business community, and certainly as marketers, but I think nothing can replace the insights that come from truly like spending real time with customers and clients and truly understanding what it's like to be them. So I always like to do that kind of almost anthropologic qualitative time where I shadow the so I went and spent a bunch of time with small businesses and just spent a few weeks just watching them work and seeing what it was like to be them and you know, how can I possibly communicate or try and convince them to do something or, or influence a purchase behavior if I don't understand what it's like to be them on a day in day out basis. And as as medium or small businesses, the thing that struck me was just how hard it is to run a business. And the thing that they really truly need the most is for people to support them. And so for me, I saw an opportunity there where instead of doing an ad campaign that said, Oh, we used to do checks now we're 100 years old and we do websites. Instead, could we do something that could advocate for small business? Could we draw attention to the importance of the hoarding them. And so that was the idea. It was called the Small Business Revolution. It started out we're in our 100th year, we went across the country and told the stories shared the stories of 100 small businesses. And it was shot in a really in a dark in dark style, real cinematic quality, which was part of the message. And in that first year, we rolled them out throughout our 100th year. And that's how we celebrated our centennial was by not talking about ourselves, but turning the literal camera around and sharing the stories of the kinds of customers we're honored to serve. After that year, it was it was so successful in terms of reach and impact and hitting all sorts of both business metrics and authenticity metrics that we decided to evolve it into an unscripted show, where we took it a step further and shared the stories of small businesses, but then also helps them so the things that we saw small businesses struggling with when we were traveling across the country, sharing the stories and filming them, was that they really struggle with their marketing, understanding how to use marketing to grow their business, and then maybe not understanding either their numbers or what the numbers are telling them. And so the unscripted show is basically a small business makeover show where we came in and again, share their story. You fell in love with the entrepreneur and the story behind why they started their business and what they're trying to accomplish. And then we stepped in and walked alongside them and help them with their marketing and their finances, absolute physical makeover, which was really fun. So yeah, and each season took place in a different small town, there was a whole activation in social media and in a PR push around getting people to nominate their favorite small town, because each season people we had like 30,000 towns nominated over the course of the show, each season, we'd narrow it down, we'd go and visit 10 communities and then put the top five for public vote. So each season took place in a different winning small town, whoever won the public vote, and every year, like a million people would vote in the process. And so anyway, there are all sorts of layers to it from a marketing and communications perspective. But at the heart of it, it was about more than a show it was about trying to create a movement around celebrating the importance of supporting small businesses.

William Harris  7:17

And I love that I do have to call out but I'm not as young as you think I am. Tears of grace here. I had a checkbook. I in fact, I got my first checkbook when I was 11 years old. This is really tangential to get back on topic in a second. I was 11 years old, delivered the newspaper. And we actually had to go collect door to door, collect the money from the people and then mail that in and send that in. I had a checkbook. When I was 11 years old, I felt pretty, pretty cool and important then, right? You want to go to school? And what is it fifth grade, sixth grade, or whatever the you're 11 years old with a checkbook and say, Hey, guys, I got I got this, I'm gonna order the pizza for us kind of thing.

Amanda Brinkman  7:55

You should. I mean, I think it's really interesting. You know, everything is so digital now, which has a lot of convenience to it. And it's certainly streamlined. A lot of efficiency for us. But there's nothing like the principle of like balancing a checkbook, like that's still how we should think about our money. This is what's coming in what's going out. You know, debt isn't wealth. And so anyway, I think I think that's great. 11, you were doing that. And that actually explains a lot of who you are and your success that you were doing that back then and the hustle of the paper route, by the way. Like I think it's so interesting. We have a middle schooler and we're starting to think about, you know, she started thinking about how she's going to make money. And it's just it's a different world now. But I think, you know, I'm glad that I had those after school jobs and babysitting and different things, because I think they're, you know, when we talk about financial independence, I think it has a lot and work ethic. I think a lot of it has to do with how it's introduced to us in our youth.

William Harris  8:56  

Totally. So back shifting. I love it. Which episode was your favorite? Like? Is there an episode that stands out to you that you're like, this episode was a lot of fun, or is very emotional and impactful? Is there an episode that stands out to you? They're like, I really liked this episode. Yeah.

Amanda Brinkman  9:14

You know what, over the course of six seasons, it's like, all of these businesses were like family, you can see where the answers going. It almost is impossible to pick a favorite. There were certainly highlights and moments that that we certainly cherish. You know, one of the things we're we're most proud of is so the first five seasons, as I mentioned, all took place in different small towns, we were really trying to help, you know, show that not only do we feel like small businesses are so important to our country and to our economy, but certainly to our communities and where we live that what if you were to invest in small businesses could help an entire town thrive and we're making that kind of that big. So the first five were all in small towns. But we're we're based in Minneapolis and St. Paul. And we were filming Season Five during 2020. And that was the first season actually, that was nominated for an Emmy. And I think it's because it was almost a journal entry into what small businesses went through during the pandemic, because we had just started filming in January of 2020. And we're about to go back and film the, you know, kind of the second and third scenes of every episode, because in in real life, this is a makeover. So we're filming each episode, you know, scene by scene, as the makeover is, is moving forward, we're about to go back and film, you know, and then March of 2020, hit and you can feel it in the episode. You can, you can hear and you can see the empty streets. And it's just, I don't know, it was very it when when we see clips from that season, it takes us all kind of back there in terms of what businesses were going through. But the other major thing that happened in 2020 is George Floyd was murdered in our hometown. And so I think, as every brand and person was trying to figure out how to respond and how to be a part of the way forward around dismantling this systemic racism that became very apparent to us was still prevalent in our society, we decided the way Deluxe could participate is through economic empowerment. It's one of the ways forward around racial injustice. And so we brought the Small Business Revolution home for season six. And instead of featuring one main street in a small town, we featured six different neighborhoods that have perhaps been underestimated in the past, and featured all black owned businesses. And so while we don't have a favorite season or a favorite episode, I do feel very blessed that as I was even doing, you know, the work to understand, to do it through the lens of this work, and to really make sure that we were providing something that was sustaining and lasting and that kind of certainly not performative and not you know, what was kind of hashtag activism at the time, we really wanted to create something that was sustaining after the outrage ended. And so anyway, it was very grounded and community listening. And so we're very, we're just very proud of how that season turned out. And we feel like we honored these incredible entrepreneurs through this free time. That's

William Harris  12:20  

beautiful. The transition that you had from season one to where you ended up in season six, I think is really exciting and impactful to you also had some really fun co hosts. So I got a call out right. There was Robert Herjavec from the Shark Tank. I Pennington from extreme makeover, and Baron Davis in the NBA. And I think he played for the Cavs at least one season there. Kaz being my my original home team. I'm originally from Ohio. So there's a lot of fun there. Was there ever a moment? Are there any embarrassing stories you could tell about any one of them? Maybe one of them's it's like, I only like they had a diva moment. They're like, I only want blue m&ms. Why are there yellow? Anything like that?

Amanda Brinkman  13:06  

No, but I understand how those stories get blown out of proportion. Sure. Yeah. Sometimes it's just someone just makes a casual remark. And it kind of starts it starts a bit of a snowball effect. No, you know, they were all incredible co hosts and brought different strengths to the table. So you're right, Robert was season one and two. And then Ty was seasons three, four, and five. And, you know, Ty, and I would you know, afterwards, you know, my team and I were very, very invested in this off camera to these this route. This work really, really mattered to us. It wasn't, again, just for a show. And so, you know, we would hang out in the community after we got done filming and Ty would always come along, you know, he, he and I bartended you know, one night together and like he just, he's a hoot. I mean, he is who you see on camera. And I think a lot of times I think celebrities kind of get a bad rap for having two versions of themselves. And Ty is who Ty is. And he's he has such a kind heart. And He is so energetic and just a ton of fun to be around. So and then Baron truly, truly cared about the businesses. It was remarkable. I mean, some of the businesses happen to be he lives out in LA and some of the businesses were out in LA different times on personal vacations. And like Baird invited them over to his house. I mean, that's really cool. I mean, it was crazy. Trump left his sunglasses that barons house and burn brought them back. Like personally hand deliver them back the next time he was in town for filming. I mean, just the care and thought. And so we were very blessed to have three co hosts that really understood the impact that this work could have. And it was such a blessing to be able to bring that to the world of television. I think we're all just hungry for happy and positivity. To bring goodness to television feels is really good. There's a lot of good news on television. But this, you know, it, it was, yeah, it was just a lot of fun to be able to do something that really meant something in real life to

William Harris  15:10  

what reminds me of the song by Jack Johnson is one of my favorite. He's one of my favorite musicians period. But that song especially to talks about, like, Where'd all the good people go? Right? I've been changing channels, I don't see them on the TV shows. And it's like that is true. I feel like a lot of shows, there's so much darkness out there. And then to be able to have a show that's showing something really happy and positive. I think there's an alert that

Amanda Brinkman  15:35  

was interesting, like when we were talking to different networks to about like, where this would be distributed. You know, eventually it ended up on Hulu, which was a perfect partner because they gave us creative autonomy. They didn't try to change the ethos. But there were some some distribution partners that we talked to who wanted to change things up they wanted, like I hosted the show, they wanted me to be tougher on the businesses and kind of tell them what's wrong. And and can I have that kind of trope that you see in reality shows. And Ramsey Yeah, and it's like, I'm not doing that that's not the point, or they wanted to insert kind of this faux drama that you, as a viewer have to know is happening in the background of these of these unscripted shows. And we just didn't want to do that to it. That wasn't the point. And by the way, like when you're doing a show about small business, you don't have to invent an antagonist like running. Drama, like it's hard. And so we were very Hulu let us do the show we the way we wanted to do it. And we always say it's like a makeover show. But with heart, you know, it was defined the tropes, both the way it was shot, it was shot doc style, which is not typical in the reality show genre. And then also just the fact that it wasn't there to make anyone look stupid, it was truly there to like, lift them up and, and be a source of education for other entrepreneurs. Like that was our favorite thing. People would say they'd write in and say I couldn't, I was crying because I saw myself in the story. Thank you. That was really something we'd love to hear. But then they're like, but at the same time, I couldn't take notes fast enough. So we love that it was hitting on both kind of that emotional validation piece, but also the fact that it was educational for entrepreneurs as well. Yeah.

William Harris  17:22  

So let's dig into the metric side of this, then. Because it's it's all well and good. But you know, Deluxe isn't going to sponsor if there's not something coming behind there from there, right. Like, that's just like an inherent thing that typically happens. When we're there, are there any metrics you can share about how this impacted the business side of the luck?

Amanda Brinkman  17:44  

Yes, absolutely. So what I can say is, you know, when I was first kind of selling this in, you know, in front of our board, and my peers, you know, the, the bet that we were going to make is that we were going to take our paid media. So you know, the way you buy media is you know how many people you're going to reach, that's the very way in which it is valued. And so we're going to take our paid media budget and redirect it to this beautiful filmmaking ad, it's very hard to measure. And so the the metric that we there are a ton of metrics that we signed up for our own brand awareness, brand affinity, all the things you would expect that you would measure in terms of efforts against a brand campaign. But the one that I thought was the most impactful around ROI was I said, I think we can reach more people than we can afford to reach with paid media, if we invest in something that's truly authentic, and that we let stay beautiful, you know, not try to make it in some version of magazine, because then I think people will share it organically, we'll get new stories, but earned media and social media. And so I didn't tell by how many times more. But I just said I think we can reach more. And if we can then let's keep going down this path. And because we had a small budget and our competitors are these spending giants that are only you know, talking about one product or service, just email marketing, or just you know, website, hosting and things like that. And so we ended up reaching in the first year, we ended up reaching 12 times more people than we would have reached if we would have invested in straight pain. Yeah, by the end it was like 14 times and so it always kind of hovered around that 12 to 14 times return. And so I think it's a it's a real testament to the fact that if you if you invest in beautiful storytelling, but you have to go all in it cannot you can't compromise any point because then you lose your organic share. People smell it as an ad. You know, one of the things we loved about the show is that you couldn't watch an episode of that and not understand that Deluxe did Marketing for Small Businesses. However, you also cannot do a makeover for small businesses and not help them with the marketing and so We played a very natural character in the show. So it didn't feel like this for spring integration we never showed, here's how you build the website on deluxe.com. Like, we never did any of that. And because I think we kept it pure not only didn't mean, we had a distribution partner like Hulu, because if we wouldn't have, it wouldn't have had that kind of distribution. And then also, I think, you know, that it truly was entertainment first, and it happened, you know, the brand got to come along, for the halo effect brand dried. So,

William Harris  20:30  

yeah, so 14 times the reach slash engagement. You probably can't get into like the finances of it. But was there any noticeable blip on let's just even say like, top line revenue? Bottom line revenue? Dare I say, right, but it's like, is there? Is there something that's at least noticeable? On either one of those as well? Yeah,

Amanda Brinkman  20:52

you know, after the first I think it's easy. The first year, the second year, you know, Kramer took to like was talking about the Lux 100th anniversary, and the fact that we had invested in brand awareness in this way, and talked about the rise in the stock price. I mean, like a lot of different kind of more business metrics were attributed to the fact that we invested in this kind of brand awareness. And so there were certainly fiscal measures that we use internally, to speak to the efficacy of this campaign. But then publicly, you know, in earned media, we got a lot of incredible coverage around the rising stock price and these other things, because we were out there telling our story, in a much bigger and bolder way than than just straight advertising. Ken. Yeah.

William Harris  21:38  

And I think that's important to look at it that from that perspective of, if you're trying to sell this to the board, and you're trying to get buying, because I don't know, which I'm more impressed with the fact that you did the show so well, or the fact that you sold it to the board, like is like to get them to buy in on that that's a that's a that's a big ask. But being able to show, you know, even the cost of what what would this media have cost? Otherwise, if we were doing this, right, like that, in and of itself is one aspect of that. And then what does this do to even share prices and things like that, I think that that's an important piece for being able to get that buy in from senior leadership.

Amanda Brinkman  22:12  

Yeah, I'm very, I'm very proud of to have to have been at Deluxe, and I'm very proud of the fact that they saw the vision in this and believed in it. And the other thing that I really credit them with is, you know, as I was first laying this out, I was very clear that this has to be like a multi year thing, we cannot just do this for one year, and then expect there's gonna be a sort of impact when you invest in really beautiful storytelling, the impact will be can be seismic, but only if you stay the course to let that catch up. I just heard this the other day about it was in reference to people personally, but I think this is true of brands, that success is actually a lagging indicator. Things that you measure a success right now in your life are not because of necessarily exactly what you're doing right now. It's all these other things that have led to this moment. And I think that's true of brands, too. You can't you can't only measure like what happened this quarter in order to navigate. It's very, it's blinder oriented. And if you but if you can lift your head and see like, What could this be, that's when you see brands make these really giant leaps. And it seems like it happened overnight. But it was this slow and steady march and not, you know, not wavering on that commitment. And so I'm also very proud of the fact that Deluxe saw the importance of staying true and committed to this work year over year.

William Harris  23:39

It reminds me of a quote that I'm going to butcher from a previous guest, Matt virtually, that I saw something that he said on Twitter along the lines of if you look at like daily ro S, which is a thing, big time in the e-commerce space, oftentimes daily row as you might survive long enough to witness your death. Kind of to the point where it's like, your brand might survive just long enough to witness how badly you've screwed that up. And I think that's very true, where it's like anything that you're looking at longer term, you have to look at this from from a multi year looking at things from a bigger picture. Definitely. So you've parlayed what you did there now into your own agency doing this for other brands, essentially sunshine, and we'll call this long form branded, branded content, right? How are branded storytelling, long form brand storytelling? How are you using this for other brands where they maybe can't go to the same extreme of running a show on Hulu with, you know, a shark tank guy, Robert Herjavec or Ty Pennington but like still being able to make meaningful impact to their business?

Amanda Brinkman  24:50  

Yeah, so you know, the first thing we always talk about is, you know, what is first and foremost your brand purpose, what we've done sense. So I'm trying to take a step back is that the three, you know, the three circles in the Venn diagram that are really important to the work that we focus on is, it needs to move the business. First and foremost, if you're redirecting dollars that are meant to grow the business, it has to do the same thing. So it has to be good for business. The second overlapping circle as it needs to be engaging by the very nature of the format, the fact that it's either a series or a doc or it's some sort of content that people want to be watching, I always say, instead of creating the ad, that interrupts what they want to be watching, why don't you just create the thing that they want to actually spend time with, that's what we did with SBR. It was like, people, entrepreneurs, instead of interrupting Shark Tank, we were the show they wanted to watch and learn from so create the thing they want to watch. So make it engaging. And then the third, that is really impactful important to the work that we do. And it has to have this for us to do it is it has to make some sort of impact, it has to move our social consciousness forward in some way. And that doesn't mean that every project needs to be tackling poverty, or alleviate homelessness, it can be something like what we were doing where it's like it was affecting communities in a really positive way, or it was standing for economic empowerment in underserved communities, or like you can stand you know, it can be something that it shouldn't be something that really aligns closely with your brand. But it has to be kind of standing for something to to use your platform for good. So those are the three things that we always focused on, on the work we're doing. And so we always talk to brands about you know, first, most brands now have identified their brand purpose that was a buzzword, you know, a while back, but now brands are getting it, they need to have that brand purpose. But what is your brand action, like if you if you just stop at purpose, then it's just we've just come up with a fancier term for mission statement. So what is your brand action? Like? How are you actually making a difference in the lives of your customers or in the world in a way that is, you know, not only good for them, but beyond just selling them things. And then and then the storytelling is just walking alongside that and telling the story of that action. And you're we're actually working on an idea right now that's actually a scripted series. Like it can be fun. I mean, it can be really fun. It's not everything has to be a documentary that bums you out about the state of the world, it can be nothing all ducks are that I just mean. It can be you know, entertaining is good for people joy, like remember Fun, fun a screenplay. So there's a lot of ways to make sure that your brand is showing up in a useful way in people's lives, both in terms of your brand action, and then how you're telling that story through film.

William Harris  27:46  

Yeah, what I like what you said about make the thing that they want to watch. It reminds me of something I've said about the Lego Movie, which is old now. But the Lego Movie was a two hour commercial basically, for Legos. You can maybe even say the Barbie movie to a point is as well, where it's, it's, it's still a commercial for the product, I mean, certainly going to increase sales. But there's something more to it, instead of making it into an ad, you made it into something that people wanted to pay to go see that they want to share with their friends, they want to experience with other people. And so not all ads have to be ugly, you can make it into a longer form brand storytelling piece that people are excited about. Absolutely. And

Amanda Brinkman  28:27  

then genius to have like when you think about like Mattel had to be pretty transparent about some of the errors that the brand made. And even just to acknowledge that maybe Barbie as a brand or as an ethos didn't hit on all those cylinders and made some little girls feel bad actually, like there was there's great bravery in that. And that's why it was so watchable and engaging. Like if they would have just made it like a sunny rosy cherry, like just, you know, pink movie, I don't think it would have, you know, the fact that the brand showed vulnerability. And it was I'm sure the only way Brett agreed to do it. But also like that it wasn't a really important part of why it was an effective brand play.

William Harris  29:10

Yeah. What if somebody's wanting to go forward and move forward with some longer form brand storytelling content now? And they're trying to get buy in from their board aside from what you did for your board? What are other roadblocks that they sometimes run into? That would be helpful for them to have like these one liners almost of how to navigate getting somebody on board with this.

Amanda Brinkman  29:37

A couple of things that I think can be useful is you know, there is this phrase, you know, quick quick fails or quick wins or quick tests like one of the things I said is like just trust me for the first year like let's just see how this works. I can I promise like it will be more. And then once I had that first year of metrics now we have some leading indicators that we're on to something and So, you know, sometimes it isn't about in that first discussion saying, you know, pitching this 10 year idea, though, in your mind, and at some point, you do need to be clear with them about that. But like, let's just, let's just, you know, do some quick testing here, let's do some, let's, let's try it, if it works, we'll know we're onto something, and then we'll invest more, you know, start kind of carving out pieces of your budget to do some experiments with or some leading indicators, maybe you could test some things in social on the side that aren't taking, you know, an incredible portion of your portfolio of spend, where you can just kind of test some messaging, you know, have some data points where you can show that that audience will respond. But kind of, you know, try for kind of that, that quick win piece of it. And then I think the other thing too, is you can start small like you don't have to, I didn't go in and say we were going to make six seasons of a non scripted show that's going to be on who not only did the creative evolve over time, and was informed by listening to our audience. But it was more of in response to something specific like for us the 100th anniversary, like can you make it about can you make this the pitch for a brand campaign or for a product launch? Or for you know, meat may get tied to something? And then you kind of have that, that data to go in with it and then make it bigger and bigger over time?

William Harris  31:26  

How do brands who decide to go down this path? How do they cut through the noise as my friend David Brier would say, cut through the noise? I think about let's say, for instance, helping small businesses, Small Business Revolution, it's a great thing that you did, how does somebody else now also continue to come up with a new way to help small businesses that's going to have the same kind of impact? Or, you know, Let's even say from a branding standpoint, and a watch ability standpoint, is there like a limit to how many brands can do this? It's like, well, you kind of mastered that one. And now nobody else really has the ability to come in and do that one. Well,

Amanda Brinkman  31:59  

I think one of the things that worked really well for us was the fact that we, we had I, you know, there's certainly gamification to it, but we made it a contest, like, you know, people were able to get involved in engaged when I think about the organic reach and social. I mean, it's the kind of metrics as brand marketers we celebrate, overtake have that kind of organic sharing on a brand behalf. But it was because in real life, someone who's going to benefit from it. And so, you know, that first year we came out, we said, we're going to invest half a million dollars in the winning towns main street, and we're going to film the transformation in this new mom scripted show, you know, nominate your favorite town. So first, like, we're just getting all sorts of people from towns involved in that particular process. And then once we narrowed it down, we had a bunch of local activations to, like, we've spent time talking about the show, but there was like this whole, you know, kind of ecosystem of content and activations that supported this, that was just the mother content. And it allowed for both from a brand presence perspective, but also an activation perspective, all these other things, then, of course, were a part of that. So we would go to the top 10 communities and have actual would have rallies about how important it was to support your business, my team and I would go door to door and shake business owners hand and became the CIO. And so in alternatives, communities, they all would say, like, you know, even if we don't win, like just the fact that you gave us something to rally around, and something to be proud of, and sweep the streets for like, just gave something, you know, a common kind of focus I kind of admission. And so we have all these activations, so then there's a bunch of, you know, earned media around that. And then once we put it up for public vote, you know, we host a whole satellite media tour when it was covered in national. We're on national news outlets, and everything celebrities are trumping for it, it was discussed twice on the floor of Congress, like it was, it was crazy for local politicians trying to emphasize it. So I think that's the other thing too, is definitely think of the creative idea for the content, that's our favorite part to work on with brands is figuring that piece out. But the real effectiveness of the work will be in the rest of the ecosystem you build around it. And PS like that's where you get to be more granular with your calls to action. So of course, I got pressure all the time. Like, can we put the loops.com on the screen? Can we tell people were to go to find out more. And the only way I could kind of protect that work is by showing them where else it would show up. You know, we created you know, cut down videos for social that use clips from the show, but then had more of a direct call to action. We had blog posts we had, you can imagine, as Mark the marketers that are listening like you can start to picture all the channels you already have. And then how this mother content gives you a theme that actually ties it all together. And then depending on where you are in this In the funnel, you can get that much more specific and not only more measurable, but more, you can be more direct with it. You can reserve content to people who have been participating the content. I mean, there's all sorts of stuff you can do. Because there was something interesting at the beginning, you know, the rest of that ecosystem wouldn't have existed without the mother content. Yeah.

William Harris  35:24  

When you mentioned for that mother content, a big piece of this is purpose, right? Like, what's the brand purpose and then turning into the brand action? You've been talking a lot more about purpose in general. And I think your your new talk is called purpose pursuit. Right? Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about like purpose pursuit, what this is why this matters? What is purpose pursuit? Yes.

Amanda Brinkman  35:48  

So, you know, about three years before the we wrapped the show, and I left Alexa, and started sunshine studios, I started thinking about, you know, what is my purpose? You know, I had spent my whole career kind of build, trying to prove that brands could do well, by doing good and certainly the Small Business Revolution was this beautiful kind of case study in in that in that theory, but then what I do now, do I go to another company and try it again? Do I, I love small businesses so much now, like, do I stay focused on that I just started really wondering about it, then you got a pandemic thrown in there. So I started going out, talking to people and I felt like I was on some sort of personal purpose, spiritual journey myself. And I was like, talking to people and it became very clear that everyone is struggling with like, What is my purpose and I so I became just like, obsessed with it, like both personally and like, I wanted to like help. I wanted to help other people not feel, you know, so lost around it. And so I like I did all the research for five years is like I read every book, every podcast, every I went on all the yoga retreats to the middle of the desert, I conducted interviews, I just took a deep dive into like, how exactly do we find our purpose. And I've now kind of put curated that all together into this talk, where I, a lot of a lot of my a lot of my audiences are corporate audiences, because I think especially I just think, you know, post pandemic, I think people are in a bit of a of a purpose slump, and I'll give you, I'll give you the Cliff Notes version, the headline is that our purpose is not like somewhere out there, that we're waiting to find like that we've made purpose. So big capital P purpose, we tell our kids go live your purpose, we say to ourselves, What is my purpose, and we've made it so big that it is daunting, and almost impossible to figure out. And then what ends up happening is we end up in kind of this purpose paralysis. And we don't know which way is forward. And we don't know if we're doing the right thing. And so we end up kind of sleepwalking through life. And so a big part of my talk is about reassuring people that your purpose is not your job, your purpose is you like who you are, is your purpose. And I break that down into, I certainly go back in time and explain how I came to that conclusion. And I share kind of five different five to eight, you know, different like, either practices or ways of seeing things or things to kind of wrap our heads around this concept like, how can we? How can you believe me that we just already our purpose? And what does that look like? And how do we distinguish between purpose and calling? And how does our purpose show up in our work day to day, because a lot of people, especially post pandemic are like, I my purpose cannot possibly be all of these emails and zoom calls, like what? And it's like, no, but they're, your purpose is how you move through the world and who you are already designed to be and your special gifts and your superpowers. And anyway, I don't want to go into the whole speech. But the point of it is, I want to help people just feel better about it. It's, um, every person just really, really matters and is here on purpose. And the quicker we can realize that the more we can sit in that and recognize that purpose is not so macro, it's actually quite micro. It's like every interaction every day, every week, every month, and then that accumulation is your life. And so we can't be waiting for it to come to us 20 years from now, or when we retire or when our kids grow up or when we have time to slow down. We have to recognize how to live in our purpose on a day to day basis.

William Harris  39:44  

Reminds me of two really good things that I think you'd appreciate. One is a quote from Alexandre Mozi. And I'm not going to sit correctly, but I think it was something along the lines of when we're trying to find our passion. A lot of people are like what's my passion and it's like passion doesn't just happen. It's not like you just, oh, now I have a thing that I'm passionate about, like a lot of times passion is something that is almost formed over a period of time from habits, right? And so it's like, because you did this over and over and over again, you're now good at it. Now you're passionate about it, because you're good at it or something along those lines. And the other thing is, I don't know if you've ever heard the story about like, the starfish on the beach. Do you know where I'm going with this? Yes, yeah, yeah. Right. So so the guy or the girl is walking down the beach, and they see some starfish, and they're all sitting there on the beach. And, you know, they pick it up, and they throw it out there into the ocean, and somebody else comes along, and they're like, What are you doing, there's 1000s of them here, you can't possibly make a difference. And the person who threw it in there says, I made a difference to that one, to your point where sometimes we look at our, our purpose, or our passion or whatever is the grandiose thing. That is, like you said, it's almost it's paralyzing. And in reality, it's oftentimes it is just in the way that you are intentional about each thing that you're doing throughout the day, even if those might seem like small, mundane things.

Amanda Brinkman  41:08  

100% like nothing. Okay, I wouldn't build on that were like, nothing is mundane, like, everything we do has a ripple effect, right? Like, you, you have an act of choice around if you're gonna leave someone in a better place, or if you're gonna if you're going to add energy to their day, if granted positivity to the day, or if you're going to detract from it. And it's so easy as humans trying to just juggle everything and move through the world to forget that we're dealing with other humans, and we're then pointing their energy in a certain way, every time we're wrong. I don't mean energy. I don't mean to sound woowoo I just mean, like, you know, I mean, like the positivity that we bring to people. And I mean, it's, it shows up in the way in the tone we use with our kids, it shows up in the tone that we use when the telemarketer who isn't responsible for the policy, that's frustrating us and we but yet we use a tone with that, like they carry that all the way home too. And so it just Yeah, understanding our ripple effect is one of the points I make within the speech. And I think it's, it's just something I tried to be conscious of. And even though it what I think is really interesting about all this purpose stuff is despite all the research I've done, despite immersing myself in it, now I'm traveling across the country talking about it, I still, I mean, I still struggle with it. And I think when people talk about, you know, either having a gratitude practice, or all these different things, I think when we look at or when people think even about religion, or habits or ritual, anything, it's all designed to, like, bring us back to center when we're off because like life is crazy. Like, like, shits hard. And so it's like, how do you? How do you when it when life is coming at you? How do you stay focused on these principles I talk about in terms of like, being in your purpose. And so they're really all just meant no one's in someone's head? That one's like, no one's enlightened. It's all about how do you recenter when you're knocked off your axes? So?

William Harris  43:15  

And yeah, so you did a lot of research into this, you went five years digging into building this out. But what I hear you saying, and these are your words, is that I don't have to necessarily go to a yurt in Patagonia to find this, right? Like, this is not as difficult of a thing to figure out like, I don't have to go on, you know, some safari tour or anything like that.

Amanda Brinkman  43:39  

No, you know, one of the one of the groups that I interviewed as a part of this process was nonprofit leaders. And it was really interesting, they call it the two year cliff, where people during the pandemic left their corporate jobs and joined a nonprofit because everybody was had this heightened awareness around purpose and how we were spending time. And then about two years later, I had this about the time I was interviewing them, everybody was really miserable again, because they expected that the just the place they were working for was going to bring them that purpose. And we do the same thing in for profit organizations, too. We expect that our employer is and we kind of get a little mad about it like, well, if my company had a bigger purpose if my company was more, but it's like, Stop, like putting that on the shoulders of your employer. Like you get to decide how you shop and think about when you go to the coffee shop, right? And you have to baristas they are essentially doing the same job. And one is dancing and singing and excited and writing something funny on your cup. And the other one just looks miserable to be there like those, both employees. Well, people, both humans had a choice about how they're going to show up to that role that day. And I think one of them seems like they're living in their purpose. Like if that isn't purpose in action. I don't know what is and so we're making anyway, so I think it's really about that choice we have in how we show up and so you can't, you don't need Yeah, you don't need Build the year, you don't need to quit your job to feel like you're living in your purpose. Now, once you kind of recenter yourself around it and start to kind of feel like that's true, and you understand, and you understand that about yourself and feel centered around it, then there is like a second ring to purpose, which is like, you want to work for a company you believe in with people that you like that respect it, like there's certain principles, and then hopefully in that ring, you can kind of find your maybe your calling, like, that's a different thing. But first you have to be, because if you just go and work for a company that has purpose in the mission statement, because as a nonprofit, you're still you, and you're still approaching your work the same way. And you're still so you have to work on that piece first, and then and then there might be another ring, but the first answer is not to quit your job.

William Harris  45:48  

I like that, though, that there are rings to this. And in order to find that calling you almost has to go into the purpose first. You I like digging into the personal side of what makes people who they are. And so I want to get into who is Amanda Brinkman and how you're up arrowing, all different parts of your life. One thing that you told me is that you you weren't initially going to go into business that but there was a there was a teacher in high school that kind of maybe helped you see how you could marry these two things business with purpose. Yes,

Amanda Brinkman  46:27

yes. You have a very good memory. Yes. Okay. So I referenced the freeze a little bit earlier, but Okay, so, okay. So I always felt like growing up, like I wanted to do something that was like good in the world. But just like I worked on with the purpose, I kind of only thought about job titles that instantly read is good. Like I thought, well, then I must need to go run a nonprofit or be a teacher or we think about our first responders. Like we think about these Jeremy, I need to go join the Peace Corps. Like, I could only think about things that like, by the title by the role itself were good. But yet, I was so attracted to film and design and branding and market like, but that just felt like so secular or something or I don't know. And so, so yeah, we were having this discussion with our teacher about like, what are you? What are you gonna do after graduation? You to go on to, to college? And if so, what are you gonna study etc. And I kind of, I just kind of shared this the struggle that I was having, like, I want to go do something that's good. But I really love like, the design and branding and marketing and business. And he without missing a beat was like, But Amanda, if people who want to make the world a better place, don't go into business. How will the business world ever get better? And that for me, was I suppose we'll call a paradigm shift. Like, suddenly I just was like, Oh, that's true. Like, if only the only people who want to do good, or just in the nonprofit space, we're just going to keep getting more and more separate. And so I have made that kind of my pledge throughout my career, like, how can I prove that companies can do well, by doing good? How can we not think about it in such a binary way? Like, either you're a company that makes money or a nonprofit that is good? How do you actually bring those things together. And it's interesting, when I look at my career, I've had opportunities to prove that in different ways in different roles. But it wasn't until the Small Business Revolution that I had the opportunity to truly prove it, like at that level of scale. But I think when we're talking about this whole successes, you know, a lagging indicator concept, I still had to have all those different roles, and and learn the different things in order to even be qualified to be hired as a Chief Brand Officer. And this is one of the things I've kind of discovered in all my purpose reading. It's like, what a beautiful thing to like, look back at your life, in awe around how all these things came. And all these different steps led you to this moment right now. And I'll always struggle with that. Kind of the dichotomy between like, when you lean in and hustle to make something happen, like a good kind of hustle, like work ethic, and when you lean back and let things come to you. And it isn't until you get further in life that you can look back and be like, Oh, it's both, like both things. When I think about different opportunities that came my way. Some of those I couldn't have created if I would, I wouldn't have ever dreamed up Deluxe, for example. Certainly for it's called, it was like the cheque printer. Yeah, but and then here, it ended up being this incredible opportunity. But at the same time, all these different procedures that came my way throughout my career, I still had to show up, I believe in like really not, you know, the hustle piece of it, and have good work ethic, and putting the time in the work to prove myself in those roles. So it's both like, knowing kind of the cadence or the posture between which when you do which one. Anyway, that's probably more of a story than you asked for. But anyway, so my teacher said it and i know i did it?

William Harris  50:01  

Well, and I love that in, you know what's cool about the story that you just told that reminds me of how sometimes we feel, I don't know this, this need to look for like the title that has that in it that it's like, well, this is the title that matches what I think that I want to do. It's easy for us to sometimes look at helping homelessness, we can obviously have compassion there and see that or children with cleft palates in Haiti that we see. And there's the opportunity to help with that, right. So it's easy for us to see the immediate analogue there that's taking place, but oftentimes, then will be this compassionate. I don't think that's a real word, the compassionate towards maybe our neighbor, Tim, who has a boat in his driveway and is cheating on his wife and actually maybe need some support alongside what's going on in his life. Because it's like, well, we don't see the need, or it's not as is immediately evident, but to your point where it's like, within business, there's a significant need for business to be able to have the right people with the right mindsets to come in and help shape and form the right cultures. They're totally.

Amanda Brinkman  51:07  

And what's interesting, too, is when I think back in different roles I had along the way, was I directly proving the doing well, by doing good, maybe No, I wasn't at that low. I wasn't running the campaign, sir. But people used to always say to me, like, why are you so happy? Like, what, what's what's the I know that I brought, like, joy and affirmation to people. And I know that I brought a levity that is an important aspect of the human experience and connectedness and, and that's very much core to my purpose. Like, I want to be that moment of, of joy for people and make them just feel good, like, and so I was doing that. And then I was and then as a leader for them to see that someone could both be positive, but not soft. You know, I mean, like, could still like run a department and like, have a successful career, but could still be a good person like that. You could have to see it to be it in so many ways. And I at the time, I'm not until I'm even saying this right now. Did I really realize like, I was still able to show why we need goodness in business, even if like the campaign, you don't I mean, so as long as revolution was truly like a demonstration of a campaign or an effort by a company that was proving doing well, by doing good. But I think I feel honored that throughout my career, I didn't not see that as an opportunity to positively affect the people around me in every role. I had, despite the company, despite the structure, just Yeah.

William Harris  52:37  

I love it. And a person like that likely has some quotes that you live by. And so what are some quotes that that that you have that you're just like, okay, these are things that I have on my wall, or i i Open on my desk drawer, and it's there every morning or whatever? Like, what are the quotes that help be you be who you are?

Amanda Brinkman  52:55

Yeah, so my my quote forever, and it still is because I kind of love the Snark in it for a long time was that well behaved women seldom make history. And I love that one. And I still, I still honor that one. But after all, this kind of purpose, pursuit work that I've been doing. The one that's really resonated for me is that the universe has the most beautiful plan for you allow it to unfold in its divine timing. And I think that is very true. When I talk about that posture between when you lean in and when you lean back. That will always be the lesson that keeps coming back to me is like the trust in the moments where the lean the Lean In is not the right answer right then trusting that, that it's all going to kind of be okay, as a planner, as an achiever, I want to just try and, you know, work and hustle everything into existence. And sometimes that's not the right way. And sometimes that's not the right timing. And so maybe it's wisdom of age, maybe it's because of this, you know, researcher on purpose that I've been doing. But I just really wholeheartedly try to stay focused on that, that like, just focus on this moment focus on today, again, focus on how you're showing up for the next person you talk to. And if you kind of almost thin slice it that way, then it's like search accumulate into this thing. So often the best way

William Harris  54:23

to sandwich in slicing it, I'm seeing this deli sandwich coming up here. Again, hungry. So I think the thing that I liked about what you just said too, though, is I like both of those quotes very, very much. But even in my own life, I've maybe experienced the second one where you talk about being able to know when to push or pull and whatever and being able to trust that there is a plan here. It reminds me of I like thinking about extra dimensions. This is going to I'm going to be my real nerd self here, multiple dimensions. And I can see on my timeline Let's imagine that I'm walking along on my timeline. And I can see maybe that there's this, this hurdle that's right in front of me. And if I believe that it is up to me to remove that hurdle that I might push more than I need to pull on it, I need to whatever that is lean into it, like you're saying more than I need to, without realizing that that hurdle, that thing that's right there, maybe this is a customer leaving or whatever this is, right. That's there on purpose, because the customer actually has to leave in order for a better customer to come or whatever that might be. Because I can only see in these two dimensions, I can't see three dimensionally around in time, the way that you would say, the universe, or I would say God can see outside and say, I've got a plan for you just let it happen.

Amanda Brinkman  55:38  

Mm hmm. It's, it's so true. You know, I'll never say to someone, oh, everything happens for a reason, especially if they're in the midst of big T trauma. However, I think every lesson and every challenge that comes had we have the opportunity to learn something from it, or use our pain, for good somehow, like somehow, like, is there a way to find someone who is coming down a similar path behind you, that you can bring along with, like, I really, when I left corporate, I really, I had designed this whole plan, I had figured I was gonna start my own company, like I really was feeling good about it. And then when the first day when I was like hanging out my own shingle and had left corporate, I went through this really weird, like identity crisis. And this this kind of like, What is my purpose? Is this what I am so like, it was a hard transition. And it didn't feel good. And I had to really go through it. And there's a lot of muscle memory around working for other people and the identity you have in your, your job and your title and everything else. And so I had to do this work. And it's probably what propelled me so deeply into this purpose work because I truly myself was thirsty to understand. And now I see that as like, what a gift that pain and struggle was, because I am meeting with people all the time now who need to hear this message, and had I not done this research. For myself, I wouldn't have been in a position to then put it into a talk to then have like, it's just to me, it just seems so like sometimes your pain is is on purpose to teach you something. And sometimes it's so that you can help someone else who's coming down that same path behind you, and maybe make it a little bit easier for them to completely

William Harris  57:26  

agree. Um, and then when you're wrestling with your purpose and your identity that's wrapped up in that sometimes I think it's interesting to see, what do other people say about you. And there was something that you shared with me about, like what your daughter said about you that I thought was really good, too, because this was good. But like, you were saying, you know, what is what is your mom do for Mother's Day or something? Like there was a story about what your they asked your daughter when she was in school or something, she

Amanda Brinkman  57:51  

goes to this school. So they fill out these like little Mother's Day questionnaires, and they're just dorable. And our daughter was, I believe it was about first grade at the time. And it was like, um, what? You know, it's crazy questions like, What's your mom's happy? And kids, right? Adorable things like wine or something like very embarrassing like that. And it was the question was, what is your mom do for a living? And before I give the answer, we were in the midst of filming this marvelous revolution. At the time, I think we were season two or three. And it was I mean, I was on the road a lot for this show. Like it was really meaningful work. I loved it. But it was all encompassing, both personally and professionally. It was just a lot. And I was proud to do the work. I was happy to do work. But it I felt a lot of guilt as a parent around it. Like I felt I felt, you know, bad that I was traveling so much for him. And so before I read the answer, I was like, Oh, here we go. I just want you to write something like I don't know, she's never here. Or, you know, I don't know, something she said she wrote, she helps communities. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I gotta I gotta change the narrative. In my own mind. Like when you think about the guilt we have as parents, or as people are, the stories we tell ourselves sometimes are really wrong. And here, our daughter was watching me work. And I was teaching her that you can kick total after you're like, you know, you could totally love your job. You can be good at it. You can, it can be impactful and make a difference in people's lives without being a nonprofit, just like I was teaching her all these things at the same time. But all I was thinking is oh, she probably wishes I was here more. But instead No, it's like I now she has this expectation that that's what your job should look like. And I think as just working parents, we should remember that and we're teaching not just our daughters, we're teaching our sons these to see the women in leadership roles because we ourselves are in those roles. Like I think it's really important. So that changed my perspective on it and I'm I'm glad that that's How she saw it and continues to see it. And I think some Yeah, so those of us have to remember kids are seeing something different than we think our actions speak so much louder than our words.

William Harris  1:00:10  

Yeah. And it's beautiful to see your eyes through your kids sometimes, especially when they're younger, maybe not when they're teenagers, sometimes they might not want to,

Amanda Brinkman  1:00:17  

then they're just wrong.

William Harris  1:00:21  

But, you know, was there any mentor or anybody that you talked to, that helped you work through and wrestle this, you know, traveling in that dichotomy of being a good parent, but

Amanda Brinkman  1:00:33  

totally, and this is what I mean by like, when, when a lesson comes to you, it might be there, because you were just a vessel to the next person, like maybe, you know, how are you going to use it to help the next person who might be struggling with it, too? It's all in service of others. Everything? Yes, yeah. And so, yes, so my friend, Corey said to me, once, I said, you know, my biggest piece of advice is around, like, being a working mom, for example, I think this applies to just parents who travel. She said, Don't ever apologize for traveling for work, because you introduced the idea to your child, that they that you should feel bad about it, or they should hold you accountable. And kids, you know how and then like, understanding button, they're gonna push it. So less, like, that's the wrong expectation to set up around, it's like, you need to, don't apologize for it, say, mom worked really hard for this opportunity. I can't wait to go give this speech, or to go meet with this group, and hopefully help them and I'm gonna miss you. And I cannot wait to tell you how it goes when I get back. But you know, be rootin for mom, like, and just, that's it like, no, I'm sorry, I'm gonna be gone for tonight, like this thing that we're telling ourselves and say, and I'm so glad that she caught me early in my career, because my default would have been to apologize for it. Like I said, with the mother Mother's Day questionnaire, I was already feeling guilt around that instead of seeing the impact I was having in, you know, in my work. And so I think that's really, I think that's very important to keep in mind. So to the working parent, or to the efficient traveling parents out there, like don't apologize for it. You've earned those opportunities and help your kids see it that way, too.

William Harris  1:02:12  

I think that's wonderful. Yeah. And help you hit you and help you see it that way too. Like, don't allow yourself to lie to yourself. A minute, it's been absolutely amazing talking to you. Is there any other advice or, quote or anything else that you'd want to share with everybody in parting? We think just that

Amanda Brinkman  1:02:35  

I think there's something really interesting about this concept of I kind of just said it offhandedly. But I want to circle back to it, like, our life is meant we're here to be in service to each other. And that doesn't have to feel sacrificial all the time. I think past generations even talked about work that way, like it was this work, you know, like this thing. We're meant as human beings to feel good at what we do and what we spend time on. Like, what you're good at different than what I'm good at what brings me joy is different than you like, we are all built differently. Because in when we all work together and in collaboration and cooperation, all those skills coming together, make the thing possible. And we can all be good at the same thing or nothing would get done. And so just seeing the fact that even if you're not feeling like you're directly living out the purpose of your company, or you're not directly affecting your what you are good at, is contributing to making that possible and making people's lives better. But then also just like celebrating your uniqueness and who you are like you're not, you're not meant to do things that feel like you're not good at them like you should. Even when you're volunteering, like you should feel good at the thing that you sign up to say yes to. So I would just say lean into both superpowers and celebrate your uniqueness and and think of your life as like, how can it be of service to other people, and I think it helps you see your purpose.

William Harris  1:04:05  

Well, you have brought joy to me today. It's been very fun talking to you. Thank you. If people want to follow you, or connect with you or work with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Yes,

Amanda Brinkman  1:04:18

I'm pretty active on Instagram. So at Amanda K. Brinkman, the K is important Amanda K. Brinkman, or I follow me on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn, this platform too. I also have a Facebook, a public Facebook page, but also they're all Amanda K. Brinkman. And then my website is Amanda K. Brinkman. And there's a form in there too, if people are interested in hearing the purpose pursuit or just want to connect, so yeah, Amandakbrinkman.com.

William Harris  1:04:49  

Awesome. Thank you very much, Amanda, thank you for your time, your knowledge, your wisdom, sharing your heart with us today. Thank you. Thank you everyone for tuning in and have a great rest of the day.

Outro  1:05:01  

Thanks for listening to the Up Arrow Podcast with William Harris we'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes

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